Casting without intention? Wild Magic?

[1stChosen]

Lately I have been struggling with a question and I think I may find some answers among all of you. If so, I thank you in advance.
The question is....Can you cast a spell without intention to do so?
For instance, someone cuts you off in traffic after a terrible day where your energy is running low and your attention isn't fully in the present. Before you can catch yourself, you wish for something to happen to this guy or girl. One mile down the road that driver is pulled over by the police.
Could this be considered casting if there is no real intention and the only energy being used is the negative thought generated by your response to the action.

Can you take a Karma hit?
Does it break the rede?

I have some ideas regarding discipline of the mind and the responsibility of power, but I would really l like to hear some other thoughts on this.
Just something I'm working on.
Thanks
Have a Blessed Day

[harpwitch]

Lately I have been struggling with a question and I think I may find some answers among all of you. If so, I thank you in advance.
The question is....Can you cast a spell without intention to do so?
For instance, someone cuts you off in traffic after a terrible day where your energy is running low and your attention isn't fully in the present. Before you can catch yourself, you wish for something to happen to this guy or girl. One mile down the road that driver is pulled over by the police.
Could this be considered casting if there is no real intention and the only energy being used is the negative thought generated by your response to the action.

Can you take a Karma hit?
Does it break the rede?

I have some ideas regarding discipline of the mind and the responsibility of power, but I would really l like to hear some other thoughts on this.
Just something I'm working on.
Thanks
Have a Blessed Day

Okay, let's start with basics:  You can't "break" the rede.  It's not a law; it's advice. 

Now, to your main question:  Can you "cast a spell" without intending to.  Well, you can't cast a formal spell without intention, but in the way you stated the situation, you did "wish" for something to happen to this theoretical person.  This implies intent and words have power.  So, it's better not to wish such things. 

Keep in mind though, that Wiccans and witches are not supposed to be perfect people.  Not going to happen in this life or the next.  Remember also that a witch who cannot curse, cannot heal.  The law of return works both ways.  I honestly think the little bit of energy sent out in the case you mentioned is probably more like a "may you get what you deserve" kind of thing.  Of course, that's one of the most powerful curses there is......

[1stChosen]

Lately I have been struggling with a question and I think I may find some answers among all of you. If so, I thank you in advance.
The question is....Can you cast a spell without intention to do so?
For instance, someone cuts you off in traffic after a terrible day where your energy is running low and your attention isn't fully in the present. Before you can catch yourself, you wish for something to happen to this guy or girl. One mile down the road that driver is pulled over by the police.
Could this be considered casting if there is no real intention and the only energy being used is the negative thought generated by your response to the action.

Can you take a Karma hit?
Does it break the rede?

I have some ideas regarding discipline of the mind and the responsibility of power, but I would really l like to hear some other thoughts on this.
Just something I'm working on.
Thanks
Have a Blessed Day

Okay, let's start with basics:  You can't "break" the rede.  It's not a law; it's advice. 

Now, to your main question:  Can you "cast a spell" without intending to.  Well, you can't cast a formal spell without intention, but in the way you stated the situation, you did "wish" for something to happen to this theoretical person.  This implies intent and words have power.  So, it's better not to wish such things. 

Keep in mind though, that Wiccans and witches are not supposed to be perfect people.  Not going to happen in this life or the next.  Remember also that a witch who cannot curse, cannot heal.  The law of return works both ways.  I honestly think the little bit of energy sent out in the case you mentioned is probably more like a "may you get what you deserve" kind of thing.  Of course, that's one of the most powerful curses there is......

Thanks for the response Harpwitch.
I tend to agree with you 100% except for your opening statement.
While technically you are correct in saying that the rede is advisory in nature. A wise witch would treat it as law. (at least those that claim to follow it.) Once you make that commitment the rede will make you pay dearly for ignoring it.
One of the reasons that I am a "solitary" is that I lost my teacher to a binding that she committed because of an infatuation.
I watched her life and her religion fall completely apart because she chose to treat the rede as "advisory".
In my world it is law. I'm safer for taking that approach. It makes me think before I act. (at least usually)(hence this post)
Please don't assume that because I am a "solitary" that I have no clue of the "basics" I may not have 40 coven members behind me and decades of traditional teachings and initiations but that does not mean that I have not done some "homework" on my own.
Thanks again
Bessed Be

[harpwitch]

I can't agree -- the reason it is called a "rede" is because it is just that:  advice.  You might try looking up John Coughlin's book (and website): Ethics and the Craft.  It's a comprehensive history of the Wiccan rede, both the full rede as published by Doreen Valiente and by Lady Gwen Thompson; and the "final 8 words" that everyone thinks of as "the Rede."  It also goes into the law of return and the history behind that belief. 

If you're prepared to face the consequences, then the rede is advice.   Good advice, but still advice.  Cosmic jailers won't come streaming out of the woods because you ill-wish someone.  However, the more you do things like that, those paths are etched in your mind and you are more apt to do them.  Thus, you do pay a price; because that can make you a more negative person. 

[Selenemoon]

as my mother always says , be careful what you wish for as it might just come true! 

[Ken Ra]

The question is....Can you cast a spell without intention to do so?

The answer is NO and YES.
No you can't
Yes your subconscious can.

Ethics: You are responsible for everything that you do and everything that you chose not to do. This includes your subconscious. It must be trained not to dig up your neighbors flowers.

Guaranteed pain in but.

[Vigdisdotter]

While technically you are correct in saying that the rede is advisory in nature. A wise witch would treat it as law.

No, a wise witch wouldn't.  A wise witch would know that words have power because of there meanings and to ignore those meaning is a foolish thing.  If the reder had been meant to be read as a law, that's what it would have been called.

One of the things I've always loved about the Rede is that it's NOT the Wiccan version of the 10Cs.  Rather it gives the reader credit for a functioning brain and expects them to use it.

[ShadowLight]

In my personal opinion, energy is energy... Energy is within you & also in the nature itself... the Intent/will is what focuses those raw energies into manifestaion.


You said before catching yourself, you wished for something to happen.
That itself IS INTENT... even if only a brief moment or it could be considered a subconcious intent...


And in my opinion Subconcious intent can be far more powerful than concious intent.
Reson being, that sudden burt of thoughtform (subconcious) is Raw Intent (if that makes sense)... our concious thoughtforms on the other hand sometimes contradicts what we actually feel. Does that make sense?

Brightest Blessings
ShadowLight

[Ken Ra]

ShadowLight  It does make sense.  Which is stronger Conscious or subconscious is not writ in stone. Real magic can only happen when they are both in accord otherwise strange things can happen.

[1stChosen]

The question is....Can you cast a spell without intention to do so?

The answer is NO and YES.
No you can't
Yes your subconscious can.

Ethics: You are responsible for everything that you do and everything that you chose not to do. This includes your subconscious. It must be trained not to dig up your neighbors flowers.

Guaranteed pain in but.

Well put Ken Ra
I lean towards this answer also.

[Popper-of-Balloons]

Karma doesn't work like that. If they got pulled over for reckless driving, they no doubt had it coming to them even if you somehow tagged them to make them more noticeable! Police aren't in the habit of pulling people over and ticketing them just because. They get in trouble if they do that too much. Maybe it'll make that driver think twice before they run all over the road in a rampage. Might even save their life in the end.

As far as without intention goes... I actually question that assumption right on it's face. Intention for it to happen? Intention to actually cast a spell? Those are essentially the exact same thing. Formal rituals, meditations, herbs, incense and all other devices don't make the spell. They merely serve as a tool to help someone focus on their intent and the energy behind it. That's why it's so important to find what feels natural for yourself. It makes it easier. It isn't the only method possible, however.

[truffledude]

pretty thought provoking.

[SilverWitch613]

I believe in karma and the 3 fold law of the Wiccan rede or creed, whichever you prefer to call it. I see it used both ways all the time. I do think that bad things done to others and even sometimes done to yourself (yes, yourself), will eventually cause negative energy to flock to you like a piece of metal to a magnet. You may not reap any consequences from your negative thoughts, actions, or wishes every time you do something or think about something bad, which is why alot of people do not take the law of return seriously. We all have to be aware though, that just because an action or negative thought does not lead to a consequence each time, does not mean that the negative energy from those actions or thoughts is incapable of pooling up like a big vat of chaos until it is so full that is can no longer hold anymore contents inside, and suddenly break lose one day sending a chain of negative events back to you all at one time or drawn out for several years spaced only a few months or weeks apart. Karma has no timeline. Some of the veterans of this forum can vouch for how many times I came here needing a shoulder to cry on a few years ago for at least 2 years straight because of all of the bad events that seemed to happen to me all the time. It seemed like I was in the chat every month with some new huge problem I could not deal with on my own, but they were all very helpful and kind to me despite my constant annoyances. I am sharing this post today with all who wish to read it, not any one person in particular. Generalized post. Hoping it may help someone in a similar situation as mine used to be.


When I was younger, I fooled around with things in witchcraft that I knew nothing about. Just an ignorant teen thinking I knew everything and that karma was bull hockey sticks, so to speak. So I played around, wished a few bad things and noticed (oddly enough) that my thoughts were coming true. Instead of realizing that if the things I wanted to happen were coming true then the karma thing probably wasn't a lie either, I got in over my head and became addicted to taking control of other's lives. Pretty soon, I was so deep into my negativity that it consumed me and made everything aboout me negative and about 4 years later, it was like someone opened the bad life events flood gate on me. One bad thing after another, way too many things to list here so I'm sure you get the idea. 9 years later, right now, I am JUST NOW back to normal old self. It was like the bad karma slowly lifted away from me day by day starting about a year ago, and now it's all gone and I'm happy and content with life again, and it feels great!

So yeah, karma can affect you in different ways. Sometimes hard and cruel and so far in the future that you've forgotten most of the bad things you've done by the time it actually hits you, so don't let your control over your mind (Even your subconscious mind. It's hard to control but it can be done) slip away. Just because your negativity energy does not come back to you right away, or heavily, does not mean it will not eventually come back to haunt you. If you do something you know is in the "grey", don't repeat your same previous mistakes intentionally just because nothing bad happened to you in return this time or the last time you did whatever it was you did.

[Paganinja]

Intention for it to happen? Intention to actually cast a spell? Those are essentially the exact same thing.

Definitely have to disagree with this. I intend to go have wings for lunch, here in a minute. As a matter of fact, I FULLY intend to. I want it pretty darn bad, too. But.. no magick gonna be involved with my lunch today.

Ninja

[Popper-of-Balloons]

Intention for it to happen? Intention to actually cast a spell? Those are essentially the exact same thing.

Definitely have to disagree with this. I intend to go have wings for lunch, here in a minute. As a matter of fact, I FULLY intend to. I want it pretty darn bad, too. But.. no magick gonna be involved with my lunch today.

Ninja

Right. Because going to a bar and placing an order for chicken wings is exactly the same as a magically based process. You, sir, win a gold star for the day. After all, everyone knows that chicken wings manifest from intent rather than going out to get them! I am stunned by the clarity of your wisdom and understanding. I shall now base all witchcraft around ordering chicken wings. You have changed my life forever! *munches some chicken wings ritualistically*