The Afterlife?

[Kaleesie]

Forgive the cheesy reference. But as far as life after death, just the other day I watched Flatliners (1990). It had Keifer Sutherland, Kevin Bacon, Julia Roberts, etc in it. The set up was basically they (and a couple others) were medical students and Keifers character wanted to know what happens after you die. Him and his friends were to chemically induce death, then bring him back to see if he had any answers.
Long story short, when each student died and came back, they all had very different experiences about their death, and beyond. After these deaths, they all came back being "haunted" by something they did during their life. Kevin's character figured that in order to make things right again, they had to ask for forgiveness from the person they hurt. (in Julia's case, her father wanted her forgiveness for his suicide)

At the time of death there were no tunnels of light, no pearly gates.. Each experience was personal to the individual.

I know it's just a movie. It it's a movie that makes you think that EVERYTHING you do in life matters.
Ok, I'm done. I don't know if it helped, but it was on topic, kinda. And gives some perspective.

Blessed Be
Kaleesie

[Rynnfox]

Oh ho ho. The Summerland gets me very excited, I could write you a whole essay, in fact, I'm going to open up word and hope to the Gods there isn't a post limit.

Okay first things first. Please take what I say with a grain of salt and doubt it for all it's worth until you find your own truths in here (if you find them at all). Stay with me, it's going to be long and I might go off on tangents, but I'll get there in the end.

The thing about death, is that it's not and end nor is it a beginning you do not stop existing and you don't, in a way, start. You have always existed. You have existed for an eternity and you will exist for eternity more, but you haven't always existed as you are. That's a bit obvious, as you know energy cannot be destroyed, only changed, which is what you did. You individualised from the Source of All Things (The God, The Goddess, and every other  Creator that has ever been named, although for us as Wiccans we acknowledge the feminine and the masculine energies of the Source and see that they are two halves of the one inseparable whole. There cannot be one without the other and both need to be recognised to understand balance). Because you, and I, and everything else, is technically the same "age", the concept of "new" souls and "old" souls are not quite right.

"New" souls are more "newly-individualised-from-the-source" souls. They are bright with wonderfully intense colours in their aura while "older" souls -"have-been-individualised-for-longer" souls-  auras are paler (that doesn't mean they aren't intense, it's just sort of less slap-you-in-the-face-with-a-rainbow kind of aura, if you get what I mean) because they have had more time to become their own person. What I'm getting at, is that all of this doesn't start out on the earth plane, because it would be a right mess if it did.

The Summerland is, well, home. It's bright and it's damn beautiful and it's home. The Earth Plane is more like a college. You can't learn everything at home, can you? You have learn and experience things and what better way to learn than to come to a place where you're only allowed to take a pen and the clothes on your back and learn the thing that you came here for. So you learn and understand what you're supposed to and you leave, until the time comes for you to earn your next degree. But what would be a college without teachers? Not every soul sent to the Earth Plane is there to learn. Some come purely to teach and push others to see different ways so they can grow in their spirituality.
SO! Finally getting around to the death part, as I said, nothing ends. Death is a transition. It's going from that dimmed spark back to it's full brightness and it's like being given all your possessions and stationary back. If you came here with all that already, it would kind of defeat the purpose of coming here in the first place to learn. The hard way, while  difficult, is always the best. The moment of "death" is when you unattach yourself from the vessel your soul goes along in (the body. It's just that. A vessel. The physical image of your soul. So when the soul leaves it, it has served it's purpose. It's not that person, only a sort of after image that's reclaimed by the earth so the atoms can be used to create another for a different person) and you return home to review, relax, maybe work, if you want. Not all progress towards gaining spirituality and becoming what you were meant to be all happens on Earth. Just a lot of the big ones.

Wow, I think I should stop now though. I could write a heck of a lot more, but I'm not sure you'd all appreciate it, so if you want me to go on, say so, if not, well, I'll shut up now.

[xXuglywolfXx]

Well, Rynnfox, that was definately something that caught my attention. If it doesn't bother anyone else, I'd like to know what else you have to say; that is, if you have the time to share and the op doesn't mind.

[Cup of Joe]

I agree, because that concept seems to resonate with me rather well.

[Rynnfox]

Right. I'm sorry it took so long, but the combination of figuring out how to say this and personal life made time fly. I do hope it makes sense. It's a bit sporadic.

The first thing to understand, is that The Summerland is old. Very old, and very very big. So big, in fact, that it is infinite. If you walk in one direction, you'll be walking in that direction for the rest of eternity. And it is far, far older than the Earth. There wasn't actually a time when it didn't exist. It always has and always will. Another thing is that WE are older than the Earth. Although "age" doesn't really mean anything to us anymore, there are some souls that have been around for over 4 billion years, easily.

The Summerland came first, the Earth Plane, after (although, I'm inclined to think there were other planes before the Earth; Astral, for example). Therefore, I conclude (it's still a bit shaky, I'm still making connections here and there) that the Earth was shaped in the vision of The Summerland, because they do look exceedingly similar but are in ways different (and I'll get to that). In a similar, but again not really the same, way the soul is anchored to the body, The Summerland is anchored to the Earth. There are 7 layers (or realms) that vibrate with a higher frequency and more intense light as you go up. The highest realm being the absolutely most beautiful as it's inhabitants have reached the highest evolved state of their beings.

These "higher ups" (which I call them in my head) are typically quite well known; the angels (although I tend not to like that word because it implies big fluffy wings, which they have no need for) are part of them, realm guardians ( they are what their name implies, they just look after the realms plus other jobs) and I think maybe, maaaybe the Gods (like for example, Athena, Thor etc.)** plus other inhabitants.

The realm you are most comfortable in, is the realm that is most like a reflection of yourself. You vibrate at the same frequency there and although going to higher realms will not "hurt" you, you will become so uncomfortable, you'll just want to leave very quickly. That isn't to say you cannot move between higher realms at all, but there are normally processes you have to go through to make it more comfortable and you typically go with another soul that already vibrates higher than you do.

Realms are as beautiful as you are, therefore you would perfectly fit there but at the other side of the spectrum, realms can be as... ugly as you are too. But, I'd rather not get into that right now.

The thing about the 7 layers, is that they geographically line up to their Earth counterpart. London, England on Earth is located in the same place in The Summerland. Although it doesn't look the same. Architecture in the spirit world tends more toward beauty than practicality as there is no need for roads or power circuits. I've heard that they like their Victorian architecture, all with big, Gothic cathedrals and vast halls. Very beautiful.

This brings me to another point: communication. As the realms geographically line up, yes that does mean there will be a use of different languages, but talking as a method of communication is not really used. It's stunted in the way that it can easily misunderstood due to there being not enough words (or the words don't exist) to properly convey what is meant. Normally, here on Earth we try to rectify that through tone and body language, but in the Summerland, you don't have to. Communication is done telepathically and not only is it extremely fast (approximately around the speed of sound), you will almost never be misunderstood as your intentions will be plain to see. Even then, it is less just voices in your head and more like transferring of a combination of pictures and feelings mixed in with thoughts. There is no language barrier anymore and this is also the method in which you can effectively communicate with the other creatures that inhabit the Summerland.

Movement. With The Summerland being so vast as it is, you don't actually have to walk everywhere. As I said before, there are no roads, therefore no cars or any means of transport like that. Instead, you use yourself. You 'think' yourself places. If you want to go there, you think yourself in that place, and you're there. Very easy, and very simple. This applies everywhere; between realms, coming back to the Earth Plane for a visit, anything.

Work. Work is essentially how you gain spirituality. By applying yourself and working hard, you reap the benefits, just like in life. This applies to when you come to the Summerland too. You reap what you sow. You earn a house on the Earth Plane, you earn a house in The Summerland (although not everybody likes to have houses. You like what you like, I suppose). And as you reap what you sow, things that were done distastefully on the Earth Plane will have to be made up for later. No ones forcing you to do it, no one ever will, but to understand your mistake and move on and up you have to realize what you've done and try to fix it. We've all done things we're not proud of, but it's the trying to make things better that counts.

As I've said in my previous post, while you gain spirituality through going to the Earth Plane and learning, you also can evolve through your work. You don't have to work, no ones forcing you. In fact, you can spend a huge amount of time just studying things and relaxing if you want, but there's always that innate feeling of wanting to DO something. It's just who we are. Many help by becoming guides for people on the Earth Plane, or helping the ones coming through, while others are craftsmen and inventors. Many of the things invented and scientific discoveries made, were done so in The Summerland first and the people on the Earth Plane were later influenced by them when the time was right. That's not to say the people here on Earth weren't unoriginal, in fact it takes a lot of genius to be able to apply things that worked in The Summerland into the things being able to work on Earth. Things are easier in The Summerland mostly because, we are in no way limited, everything that can be found on Earth, can be found in The Summerland and more. Some materials are purely spiritual and could not be converted into physical matter. Plus there being no need for sleep, food or any other bodily function would help. A lot.

I think I've covered the basics, at least. But if anyone has any questions, I'll try my best to answer.

** I say this purely out of personal experience. When I pray to the God and Goddess as they are, the response comes from all around me, even in me. It feels like I'm talking to the whole of creation, all at once and it feels very very vast and it feels like everything. However, when I talk to specific Gods and Goddesses, it feels like I'm speaking directly to one person and the reply I receive feels like it comes from one source and not everywhere. An example would be one prayer to Thoth I did, the reply was a mixture of feeling and being electrocuted with pure energy (in a totally good way. It felt nice) but I could tell it came from absolutely ONE place and ONE individual. That is why I am inclined to think they are higher ups.

[xXuglywolfXx]

That was...wow...I'm not sure of a word to really describe it. You're very enlightened, Rynnfox, and thank you so much for taking the time to share your thoughts. Truly, that was definately something else. Well put, and, again, thank you.

[Cup of Joe]

I've read over what you've written a few times, and while I agree with all of it, I have to ask... how do you know that this is true? How do you know that this is the nature of the afterlife?

[Rynnfox]

I've read over what you've written a few times, and while I agree with all of it, I have to ask... how do you know that this is true? How do you know that this is the nature of the afterlife?

I don't have solid proof, at all (with the except of many people saying extremely similar things over a span of centuries, but that's not solid). What I know is purely based on faith. For me, it's like knowing the sky is blue. Then again though, why can't it be? What's stopping it from being like that? That's whats fun and exciting, isn't it? That you might be wrong. I don't mind if I end up being wrong, it just means I have to re-evaluate and start again.

[Cup of Joe]

I've read over what you've written a few times, and while I agree with all of it, I have to ask... how do you know that this is true? How do you know that this is the nature of the afterlife?

I don't have solid proof, at all (with the except of many people saying extremely similar things over a span of centuries, but that's not solid). What I know is purely based on faith. For me, it's like knowing the sky is blue. Then again though, why can't it be? What's stopping it from being like that? That's whats fun and exciting, isn't it? That you might be wrong. I don't mind if I end up being wrong, it just means I have to re-evaluate and start again.

Right, and I want to clarify that I wasn't challenging you in the sense of, say, an atheist would. And atheist tends to take the "I won't believe it because you don't have solid evidence and personal experience doesn't count as solid evidence" route. I was asking that question from the vantage point of, "What gives you such strong convictions?" or "why should I believe that as truth as opposed to, say, something else?" I loved everything that you wrote, and appreciate it, and all if it makes perfect sense to me. The question is, why? Why would creation happen? For what purpose were we created? From the Christian viewpoint, we were created to worship God for all eternity. So, then, we were created because God is lonely? There are so many paradoxes and conflicts within Christianity that don't add up. That's partly why I left it. I have nothing against Christianity as a religion (my entire family is Catholic), and I've met some very genuine, amazing Christian people, but I do not agree, to a large extent, with what they believe (particularly that their God is the only God, and the only true path to salvation/nirvana/enlightenment/afterlife is theirs).

[Rynnfox]

I've read over what you've written a few times, and while I agree with all of it, I have to ask... how do you know that this is true? How do you know that this is the nature of the afterlife?

I don't have solid proof, at all (with the except of many people saying extremely similar things over a span of centuries, but that's not solid). What I know is purely based on faith. For me, it's like knowing the sky is blue. Then again though, why can't it be? What's stopping it from being like that? That's whats fun and exciting, isn't it? That you might be wrong. I don't mind if I end up being wrong, it just means I have to re-evaluate and start again.

Right, and I want to clarify that I wasn't challenging you in the sense of, say, an atheist would. And atheist tends to take the "I won't believe it because you don't have solid evidence and personal experience doesn't count as solid evidence" route. I was asking that question from the vantage point of, "What gives you such strong convictions?" or "why should I believe that as truth as opposed to, say, something else?" I loved everything that you wrote, and appreciate it, and all if it makes perfect sense to me. The question is, why? Why would creation happen? For what purpose were we created? From the Christian viewpoint, we were created to worship God for all eternity. So, then, we were created because God is lonely? There are so many paradoxes and conflicts within Christianity that don't add up. That's partly why I left it. I have nothing against Christianity as a religion (my entire family is Catholic), and I've met some very genuine, amazing Christian people, but I do not agree, to a large extent, with what they believe (particularly that their God is the only God, and the only true path to salvation/nirvana/enlightenment/afterlife is theirs).

Oh no, no, no. I know you weren't challenging and I apologize if it sounded like I was rising up. I've thought about that often. Why would we want to do that? Honestly, that still gets me, but I think it has less to do with lonely Gods and more to do with the fact that within the beautiful chaos that is the Source, something thought "I don't want to be this, I want to be my own existence" and became that very thing. Maybe the Source acts like a sort of hive mind of consciousness? Hmmm, it's difficult when you don't have all the puzzle pieces.

[Cup of Joe]

You had also mentioned the "negative" realms. Can you tell me a little bit about those? I'm curious.

[Rynnfox]

You had also mentioned the "negative" realms. Can you tell me a little bit about those? I'm curious.

They are known as the "Dark Realms" because that's what they look like. It's not hell, there is no devil, but it's not the nicest of places either. It's... barren, and desolate and a reflection of those that send themselves there through their own distastefulness and hate. As I said before, you reap what you sow and this is the other side of the spectrum. It's soul-aching just to think about it, but all is not lost. They can get out of this place if they so choose, but they have to know that they're where they are because of the choices they made. They weren't sent there by any divine judgment, they're there of their own accord.

By wanting to become better and wanting to make up for what they did they can move up and on, just like any other soul from the brighter realms, and like them, they have to work for it. Many from the brighter realms help them along in any way possible, but they can only help those who help themselves. Some are so stuck in their misery, it takes a long, long time to get through to them. And some... some don't want to change at all. In their hate and cruelty, they become twisted. The soul is indestructible, yes, but it can be changed. Just like some become brighter, others become darker. Demons? They come from here. They cannot go to higher realms, doing so would cause them a lot of pain. But the Earth Plane is different and that's why you have to be weary of what you're doing with the veil. Higher realms can got to the Earth Plane easily but the darker realms cannot, they need the veil to be opened from Earth side. So, when you play with the veil from here, literally ANYTHING can get through, unless protection (often being symbols from higher realms like the pentacle, the cross, Davids star etc as well as blessing and so on and so forth) is placed.

[Cup of Joe]

Gotcha. That makes perfect sense, and that explains so much. It all adds up. If you have any more to say about the Summerland, please, don't hesitate.

[Daphnis]

The psychiatric researcher Carl Gustave Jung did some experiments on cats.  It was a rather cruel set of experiments but had some dramatic results.  He raised some cats in an environment where they never saw the outside world or any other living being.
He observed their behavior and found that when they slept, they behaved like any other cat, they had dreams about playing with other cats and hunting other things, as if, they have something inside of them that remembers, like from past lives, or from a collective consciousness that we all tap into in our dreams.

Or perhaps, our souls remember and have lived before.

In their waking hours the cats were pretty unaware of other lives or the existence of other things.

[Malikite]

In my research of Wicca, I've come to a stumbling block and I'd like some input from each of you. It seems that there is no hard or fast rule/belief on an afterlife, which causes me great discomfort. Admittedly, I do have a fairly stark fear of death, but I think it's more adequate for me to say that the fear I have rests in the idea that after death, we cease to exist, and we cease to no longer have consciousness. This is not in line with most Wiccan thought, and in searching for the answer, I'm hoping to alleviate any anxieties or fears that I may have with death. So really, what are the varying views on death/the after life in Wicca? What do each of you think? And what causes you to think the way that you do? I'd like to hear a variety of opinions so that I can, perhaps, make some sense of my own convictions, maybe even more concretely define just what those convictions are. Thank you all. Blessed Be, and Happy Esbat! )0(

After reading this, It reminded me of a ritual I performed with the use of Divine Sage (Salvia Divinorum) where during the effects of the Salvia I had the feeling of my consciousness being pulled towards Oblivion. The effects only lasted a few min. but it felt like I was fighting for hours against the pull towards nothingness. (that was my first experience with Salvia) A thought about what it meant and why those feelings and visions, so a few days later I preformed the ritual again and again smoked the Divine Sage. Again I had that strong pulling feeling (I actually felt my body getting pulled) this time not to oblivion, but to another, Higher plane of existence. But like the first time, I fought against it. (fear of leaving my daughter keeps me from leaving) But unlike the first time, It felt safe, welcoming, inviting. I think where I went wrong in the first ritual was the strength of the Salvia. It had been my first time using it and I went with a really strong dosage of it. (it comes in 10x 20x 40x 60x 100x 120x where x is the extract infused dose. so for lets say a 10x its 10 times the strength of a fresh dose) However, What I learned from this experience is that what awaits us once we are gone however frightening it may be, it is nothing compared to the fear of leaving behind the ones I love to continue on in this world without me being here to protect them.